On the Design of Skills, Read me First! Options

[krin1]

quantum theory allows somone to sacrifice an enemy to the demonlords of nil?

This post has been edited by krin1: Feb 7 2008, 06:27 AM

[Arizte]

Haha, he probably means the more tangible aspects of it.

[Gaetele]

Polaris has more random elements in its combat than other IRE games. What I'm talking about isn't so much skills with random effects, but rather an issue of predictability and expectations. The skill's user should have a reasonable expectation of what he can accomplish with an ability; he should be able to predict what will happen if he uses it so he can think ahead. A skill that is utterly unpredictable is bad even if it's not random. Think of an ability that has effects keyed to the current time and to the date of birth of the victim. If you have no way of seeing the effect in advance, and if there are enough possible different effects, the skill is useless even though it isn't random. A skill that does a random affliction out of a list of three to five possibilities is usable, especially if the afflictions have similar functions but different effects.


One hint: If you like an idea, post in its thread and show interest. That will help keep it floating at the top, cluing me in that it's an interesting idea.

If you'll remember moves like Chaos(Demon)rays, Colorburst, Colormaelstrom, etc. They have random aspects to them, but they're still useful as no one random effect completely outweighs the other random effect. Compare that to skills that have little to no use (Faeriefire, Freeze, etc.) because they either offer no good effect or are too easily cured.

[Talkan]

If you'll remember moves like Chaos(Demon)rays, Colorburst, Colormaelstrom, etc. They have random aspects to them, but they're still useful as no one random effect completely outweighs the other random effect. Compare that to skills that have little to no use (Faeriefire, Freeze, etc.) because they either offer no good effect or are too easily cured.

Just to be argumentative: Faeriefire can be useful to some classes-especially blacktalons from lusternia, and freeze is part of an aquamancer's instakill too, if I remember correctly.

[Gaetele]

Just to be argumentative: Faeriefire can be useful to some classes-especially blacktalons from lusternia, and freeze is part of an aquamancer's instakill too, if I remember correctly.

Aquamancers USED Preserve? I've seen the block of ice that's left in the room description maybe once or twice in my entire time. Every other time they kill through damage (usually by Telepathy or Telekinesis, not even Aquamancy.) There were also other ways for Aquamancers to freeze that were more efficient than casting Freeze.

[Shiri]

Just to be argumentative: Faeriefire can be useful to some classes-especially blacktalons from lusternia, and freeze is part of an aquamancer's instakill too, if I remember correctly.

I'll concede faeriefire, but freeze is pretty minimal. If you really want though, compare ignite.

[Talkan]

I'll concede faeriefire, but freeze is pretty minimal. If you really want though, compare ignite.

Again, just to be argumentative, Forren preserved a lot of people. (I get your point though)

[Gaetele]

ON TOPIC: Keep in mind that the new skill system is COMPLETELY different from the other IRE games. You will have to put in prerequisites, recommended skills, ranks, etc. for new skills that you create. You can't just c&p your idea from another IRE game and tweak it a little! It doesn't work like that anymore.

[Anansi]

ON TOPIC: Keep in mind that the new skill system is COMPLETELY different from the other IRE games. You will have to put in prerequisites, recommended skills, ranks, etc. for new skills that you create. You can't just c&p your idea from another IRE game and tweak it a little! It doesn't work like that anymore.

Ranks usually don't influence the design of every ability - most of the time, more ranks makes an ability faster or more damaging, sometimes it increases the possible afflictions it can cause. Only a few abilities gain whole new functionality with more ranks.

And I tend to design a skill linearly, and after that is done, Kunin is usually the one who figures out the lesson costs and prerequisites. Most base skills have very loose prerequisites, as well (Meaning most abilities don't have prerequisites).

One important thing, though, is that skills here should be generally more versatile. It's okay to make a skill that is a grouping of very narrow abilities, if you think almost everyone will find an use for two or three of them. In other games that happened nearly all the time, but it wasn't okay.

[Tzekelkan]

If it was mentioned elsewhere, I must have missed it.

Are there going to be specialisations to skills? For example, I'm trying to design a Technomage skill called "Science" and it could specialise into "Physics", "Mathematics" etc. Would it be acceptable? On the other hand though, I may not be able to come up with 45 abilities related to it, so I might just combine all the specialisations I had in mind into a single skill!

PS: If anyone's interested in this sort of thing and wants to help, send me a PM and I'll explain it to you.

[Anansi]

If it was mentioned elsewhere, I must have missed it.

Are there going to be specialisations to skills? For example, I'm trying to design a Technomage skill called "Science" and it could specialise into "Physics", "Mathematics" etc. Would it be acceptable? On the other hand though, I may not be able to come up with 45 abilities related to it, so I might just combine all the specialisations I had in mind into a single skill!

PS: If anyone's interested in this sort of thing and wants to help, send me a PM and I'll explain it to you.

Yes, we have skill specialisations. Like in Lusternia, we have "base" skills with around 15 abilities that specialise in "spec" skills with another 15.

[Tzekelkan]

Wonderful! Variety for the win!

[Yag]

I'm not familiarized with this so I'm a bit confused.

A skill is an skill you use, and effects are abilities of these skills. So how come does a single skill have so many abilities?

And than what is supports and hybridizations exactly?

[Jack Shade]

I'm not familiarized with this so I'm a bit confused.

A skill is an skill you use, and effects are abilities of these skills. So how come does a single skill have so many abilities?

And than what is supports and hybridizations exactly?

Skills in ToP are like the skillsets in the other IRE muds and abilities are the individual skills within that set.

So, as an example, the skill would be Survival, and one of the abilities would be Selfishness.

[Yag]

I get it but how come does a skill have to have more than one ability?

Is it supposed to be realistic like say if I casted "Fireball", I would do abilities like Burn, Incinerate, Set-On-Fire, Bleed? Like that right?

So then whats a support and specialization?

[Retrii]

Skills are the skillsets, abilities are the things you learn in the skills.

Fireball -- seeing as you said 'casted' -- would be the ability of a skill (let's say, Pyrokinesis). This fireball could have unique effects that can cause a burn or somesuch, but it is nonetheless an ability. The ability does not have extra abilities it can do -- a fireball that makes someone take fire damage for a small amount of time is an effect of the ability, not a new ability.

I am not sure what a support is -- but a specialization is similar to those in Lusternia. There is a base skill, Psionics, which has around fifteen abilities in it. Then one has the opportunity after taking that skill to a certain level (think skill ranks, despite whether or not we will have them) to specialize in something else, Pyrokinesis, with fifteen more abilities unique to it.

[Arizte]

It's like this: Math is a skill which encompasses such abilities as Addition and Subtraction.

[Anansi]

Skills in ToP are like the skillsets in the other IRE muds and abilities are the individual skills within that set.

So, as an example, the skill would be Survival, and one of the abilities would be Selfishness.

No, skills in ToP are like skills in other IRE games and abilities in ToP are like abilities in other IRE games (But read Kunin's post if you haven't).

The word "skillset" isn't used by IRE at all, at least not officially; if you've seen it somewhere referring to a skill, then it was a mistake. That's why every IRE game has the command AB to show abilities in skills, and SKILLS to show skills. We haven't confusingly changed the terminology, we're using the same words everyone else always has.

[Jack Shade]

Wow, I guess it's been too long since I've played... Or I'm getting old, heh. I guess I misremembered things.